From NYC to Dallas: How James Roland Built a Legacy | 8/12/25

WES CASTELHANO (00:01.422)
you

Coming to you from Second Floor Studios in Dallas, Texas. It's the Small Business Living It podcast with Dean Castellano.

DEAN CASTELHANO (00:14.83)
So we are here up in second floor studios. If we look a little glowy, it's because our AC is out and it's 103 outside, but we've I think we've lowered the temperature to about 85. So, you know.

If we were playing golf in Scottsdale, it'd be 107. So there's that. anyway, I've known James since, think it's 1981, 82 for sure, when I moved to Dallas, we worked at New York Life. He was my boss. A little soon after I got here, we've always enjoyed each other's company. I was a Pee-wee, his assistant Pee-wee football coach.

when his boys were playing Pop Warner.

become proven.

WES CASTELHANO (01:08.472)
This is it.

JAMES ROLAND (01:15.15)
Still no. No.

WES CASTELHANO (01:21.109)
Yes.

JAMES ROLAND (01:30.543)
one two now that's that's good yeah that's good

DEAN CASTELHANO (01:37.452)
Pinch yourself in there.

DEAN CASTELHANO (01:41.44)
Okay.

Yeah, test one two. Yeah, we're good. We're

So what is the cap you have on?

Prestwick. Golf. Prestwick in Scott.

Alright so there's the other party's a golfer, lover, football lover, yeah of course the football we coach together. do the eye left.

JAMES ROLAND (01:59.746)
Golfer. Baseball. Baseball.

JAMES ROLAND (02:12.13)
We'd signal me. my gosh. You and Chuck.

Uh huh, he'll probably listen to this. out to Chad.

love old Chuck. He'd run some scout team offense for us and just run around and let people try to tackle

Tackle him. Yeah, he was a little younger. This is a tiny bit younger.

He was a little younger.

JAMES ROLAND (02:34.126)
Wasn't there a story about one of the little guys, Vodney, knocking him ass over?

Absolutely. Lawrence tailored them going around the edge. Chuck didn't make the edge.

He didn't make the edge. Oh, he broke his leg or? No, no, no. He just had tackled. He was trying to run the boot. This little guy was a phenomenal talent and just came at Chuck, cut him right at the knees and Chuck flipped over. Not the drug LT part. No, no, no. This is a good little.

8 year old or a 10

DEAN CASTELHANO (03:05.428)
This was before Elton.

who LT was when that happened. you know, this is small business, we call it living it, you know, it's a phrase I borrowed from Philip when we worked together. You know, he's like, in order to be successful, you got to live it. So that's where our title came from. So here you are. Can I say your age or you want to say your age?

And let's say over 70.

Okay, you've been in the business.

that. Yeah, thank you. No, I'm not just saying that. since the mid seventies after TCU went straight to, you know, basically straight to New York life. And as I was telling Joe, they paid us a boatload of money back then to work for them.

DEAN CASTELHANO (03:41.452)
City

DEAN CASTELHANO (03:55.756)
So that's to the point that's. So we've, and I both started in big business and we've transitioned to small business. So now you are a sole practitioner for is not that. So maybe talk about the evolution of all that.

Big Ben.

JAMES ROLAND (04:16.366)
Well, at every step in my life, I've tried to use my background to stair step up and advance my career, whether it's in banking or consulting or what have you. And now you just use all the resources and all the knowledge that you've gained over 40, 50 years of doing this.

and relate it to current day deals. And the fun of it is, even at my age, every deal is a little different. Every deal has a twist. Every deal has something to learn. Yeah. You know, I used to get stressed out about, man, I got things I gotta do today. I got troubles I've gotta solve. Well, hold it.

Is that the fun part?

Satsang.

JAMES ROLAND (05:13.026)
God is allowing me to solve the problems of the day and I get to, I have the honor of solving the problems. And when I solve them at the end of the day, it's a glorification, it's a celebration. Now don't solve them all.

JAMES ROLAND (05:31.886)
Well, the most of them, but it feels so good to do that. That's why I'm not a fan of retirement. I love golf. I can't play golf every day. can't do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

JAMES ROLAND (05:53.87)
Both them Scotland. Yeah. Prestwick and the old corset. But you know, retirement's overrated guys. Yeah. You know, do you just evolve? Yeah. But I don't want to play golf and sit and twiddle my thumbs and wonder what I'm going to do in the afternoon. I've got things to solve now. I'm a home builder now, so I get to do that.

Yeah, we can talk about the multifaceted nature of what you do too.

And that, I kind of evolved into that because mom and dad passed away, left a good old chunk of property that we turned into 28 single-family lots and we developed it and developed it in single-family lots and then built the homes on it.

That really...

that reminds me that his, we talked about Toothman. So what was it that Toothman saw that drove him or wanted that took him out to Rockwall and buy a big plot of land? Because that was visionary in a way. mean, did he just want to get the hell out of civilization or real estate seemed to be a power in your family?

JAMES ROLAND (07:10.862)
It was, however, it was based on a real wrong decision.

Interesting.

Because that's kind of a cool saying. They made he and his buddy, Kirby Albright, who you may have remembered, decided, Hey, we're the going to move north on 544 and Preston road and buy some big old chunks of property up there. Are we going to move east? Why? Because they're building a lake out there, the new Lake Ray Hubbard. So they decide to go east.

And my mom loved it because she was raised on a farm and wanted horses and all of that. So I think the original track was like 20 acres. And so we had horses, we had cows, they built a house out there, moved out there in 1970. I was, I was already out of TCR. I was in TCU at that time. So I didn't get to live there.

And, you know, dad and Kirby did real estate deals all over, all over, you know, East, in Rockwell County and that area. But I always tell people wrong decision. Had he bought a hundred acres on 544, I wouldn't be sitting here. You'd be talking to me from St. John's. I'd be somewhere else.

DEAN CASTELHANO (08:41.966)
I understand.

Clipping coupons and but Rockwall is a great home. It's a great place to raise a family. So there's a lot to be said for that. So my two younger brothers were all raised right there, went through Rockwall High School, know, all elementary school and high school. So it was a great decision for family. It could have been a better financial decision. And my dad was a great mind from a business standpoint. He really knew his stuff.

So it was a great move.

Did he belong to DAC when he moved east? Did that influence that a little bit?

He had already joined DAC in the mid 60s. I want to say 63, 64, 65, right around in there.

DEAN CASTELHANO (09:37.592)
So did his real estate dealings or were you watching then? Were you interested then? Was that something that was in your mind when you went to college?

thought I wanted to be a dentist and would work in his office in the summers, doing everything, developing x-rays, working chair side, doing the front desk stuff, doing a little bit of everything just during the summer. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't for me. I didn't want to be tied down in an office. I got that pretty clearly.

Well, there's a taste of small business right there too.

That's right. But dad would come in and look and he'd have a month of patience lined up. And to me, that was confining. was almost claustrophobic. Like, wow, there's 30 days there and everybody's filled with 30 minute appointments.

like.

DEAN CASTELHANO (10:47.896)
So you didn't see that as dollar signs?

I was like, I am nailed to this. didn't. Now, interesting about the dollar signs. My dad, at the end of every day, would ask his front office lady to do a ticker, a tin key, the old tin key, and say, do I want to see what we grossed today? Not what we collected, because some of it's billed.

That's really interesting.

JAMES ROLAND (11:18.734)
And she'd bring him a ticker and put it on his desk at six o'clock. And then he'd come home, have dinner. And we knew if he had a good day or a bad day, because if he didn't hit enough to pay all of his bills, it was not a good dinner. really? You could tell it in his demeanor. What was like the benchmark?

I had a good

JAMES ROLAND (11:45.71)
You don't mind me asking. Yeah, that's an interesting question. I think it's like maybe $1,500 or so to clear rent and salaries and all the other insurance and all and the supplies and whatnot. But back then you'd get a filling for, I think you used to charge like $35 a surface and the

years ago.

JAMES ROLAND (12:11.308)
The tooth normally has three or four surfaces. So yeah, you know, maybe a hundred dollars for, for filling. But he was real fast, real good. he, he produced a lot.

It's but

DEAN CASTELHANO (12:27.736)
Do you have all that in your background? It's fun to say, so sports is in your pedigree from way back. Small business is in your pedigree from way back. The grit is in your pedigree from way back because before there was education, there was grit. And if you got education and grit, which I'm pretty sure your dad, know, the struggle, the climb, all of that is important. I think those of us who all grew up in blue collar homes,

understand the value of grit, because it kind of pushes you to college too. It pushes you in whatever direction, but you gotta, you know, I think it's a key element and I think it's something that my age that I use every day. So let's honor your dad, his full given name.

George Reginald Aronian.

and moms.

Julia Mayo Aronian and they changed their name to Roland.

DEAN CASTELHANO (13:32.75)
And I think you alluded to one of the reasons.

It was business related. Yeah. It was Yankee go home back in the late 40s, early 50s. It was racism is what it was. overcoming it. And by the way, his mother was not happy with that change. Can you imagine turning our saintly name?

There's grit. Overcoming it. Yeah, no.

DEAN CASTELHANO (13:57.248)
I can imagine.

JAMES ROLAND (14:04.248)
But dad understood in order to get there, he had to get in the door.

There are days I wish we weren't 10 letters. Although I think it's cool to be Portuguese now. We've come full circle.

Yeah. What was our full last name is De La Costa Castellano, which is way cool. It's got a good, it's got a good feel to it

Jocosta

DEAN CASTELHANO (14:30.848)
Well, so, okay, here we are. So Wes, where are we in the run? Great. So that's a perfect kind of halftime. We covered the background, the family. You know, one more thing about the family is that you have three bros.

23 minutes.

JAMES ROLAND (14:48.952)
three brothers and a sister who was adopted. She's actually a

That's another love story that your parents lived, right?

It's one of the greatest things they did. mean, it was my mom's sister's daughter. The whole family was wiped out in a car accident and this little girl lived through it and Sue and her dad, mom and little brother were all killed in an awful drunk driver accident.

good

JAMES ROLAND (15:32.224)
And she just passed away a few months ago and truly our best friend. mean, my wife's best friend, a lot of our best friends. I introduced Jan to Sue before Jan ever met my parents. they talked virtually every day. They're teachers. They're teachers. They have so much in common.

sons that you know it was a great relationship so to lose sue is a big hole in our family and um and her family is bigger than life i mean those are the those are the boys that are real men i mean it's booey hog who was on the apprentice

So are they all here in Dallas or they're?

One's in Houston and then two of the other the youngest two are here in the Dallas area Okay, and then the second one was killed in a drunk driver I mean, can you imagine the strength of my? Sister yeah to get up every And and know that she had bigger jobs and her faith carried her through because she had kids green kids that needed her and indeed

Endure that.

JAMES ROLAND (16:53.09)
kids of Robert who was killed that sustained her until her dying days. men now in our family, they're great. And as a matter of I probably can't say it, but Bowie is a city councilman at Arlington and has aspirations for greater political career.

Great.

DEAN CASTELHANO (17:17.998)
It's great pedigree there. Yeah, it is. Certainly. And you talk about Greta. Say her name.

Her maiden name is Sue Studer and her married name is Sue Hogg. She married a gentleman named W.C.

Well, the reason I do that is to honor them. It's one of my beliefs that if you say those loved ones who have passed names out loud, we keep their spirit alive. So that's my contribution to That's great. Honor them. Yeah. And then, so the Rowland family moves forward. You meet Jan. I love the story of her upbringing.

Names are important.

DEAN CASTELHANO (18:03.086)
On foreign soil. Yeah, so world kind of a worldview. Is that fair to say? Yeah

very fair to say, I'm so jealous. She's circled the world four or five times in her travels. We're trying to catch up to that, but her dad was a petroleum engineer, so they spent a great deal of time in Iran and Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. And one of the great things that happened when she was in Iran,

finally progressed to high school and they don't have a high school in the oil camp there. So they had to go to a boarding school. So there are a number of options all around Europe, Geneva, London, Paris, know, lots of boarding school options. And they picked one called the American Community School in Beirut, Lebanon that was headmasters by a gentleman by the name of Malcolm Kerr.

Really? My goodness.

DEAN CASTELHANO (19:09.55)
to

Yeah, he is because his son is Steve Kerr. Yes. And. sad story, Malcolm Kerr was assassinated. The Golden State was Steve Kerr. Yeah, Chicago Bulls. Yeah. And Malcolm Kerr was assassinated because of his religious beliefs. And so. Steve Kerr, don't think he ever went.

no kidding.

WES CASTELHANO (19:18.094)
Yeah

Golden State Warriors. Chicago Bulls.

JAMES ROLAND (19:37.176)
to the American Community School because he went to Arizona and went to university at Arizona, was an All-American there. But he's tied directly to the American Community. AUB, I think is what they call the big university that kind of encompasses all of American University in Beirut and American Community School in Beirut.

So did you meet Jan at TCF?

TCU. huh. I met her at TCU. and you know, just, gosh, I'm

If anybody can match James' energy and you can sense it, he's got a ton of energy and a huge heart. It's Jan. I mean, she's got an extra battery.

She does.

DEAN CASTELHANO (20:27.694)
She's full of energy. She's so friendly.

She's so lovely. She bounces good because we have three sons that are just dynamos and you know them. And we have nine grandchildren. So she's, she's having to stay up with all of them and three of them are real close. So we're involved in Justin's three a lot because we're stepping in like our parents did for us when we needed some.

help or babysitting or guidance or picking up at school. takes a village.

One more little family segment because of us. So part of the Pee Wee football coaching was both James older sons of Jared and Jake and both were talented. You know, we're all young. It's before your body's fully developed. I think they became more baseball players and football players eventually or basketball players. And there's a time and Jake was a lovely dude and

younger than his brother. And I think he made a mistake or something. He missed a block or somebody got around him or he fumbled or something. And he goes, I'm going to go take a lap. He gave himself a lap. Good on you, Jake. So we had, I had so much fun. I wasn't a dad at that point. You already had.

DEAN CASTELHANO (22:00.094)
sons being all part of that together. So family man. So, you know, I could, could do a whole episode on family and I'm really glad back there. And it's fun when James did turn 70, he did have a party and the place was full and there were pictures of us as coaches. You don't have your mustache.

blessed. We've been very blessed.

JAMES ROLAND (22:36.13)
in the porn stash. Yes. Hey, I shaved it one time and somebody came up and said, man, you look so young. I went, that's gone. Because it was turning gray, guys. It was turning gray. So anyway.

it's back and forth.

DEAN CASTELHANO (22:53.742)
So here's the thing, very common in both of our career paths is that we started out as lenders, and I'll call that a principal side. Like you're in control of one side of a transaction. You've also been a developer, which is the other side of the transaction, the borrower, what I would call the consumer of capital, the provider of capital. You've been a provider of capital more than once at the credit union. Now you're a middleman.

between the provider and the consumer of the capital. And when I talk to young guys, I say, there are careers in this business and capital markets that can suit your personality, right? So if you, I like being a lender. It's just something that I started out in. I like the creativity, but I also like solving problems like you like solving problems, but I like solving problems that,

allow transactions to occur, you're conducting, I might be more of a player. But so what attracts you? Which part of that do you like the best? Do you like being in the middle of best or did you like being a lender or a developer?

think in the perfect world,

JAMES ROLAND (24:16.096)
I like being a lender, having the gold and being able to dole it out to the people that it's worthy to. And analyzing that and watching over that. The problem solving being in the middle is intoxicating because when somebody says they can't do that, you go, that's under these circumstances. Let's change the circumstances.

And now all of a sudden, well, I can't make that loan based on that loan to value. Well, okay, you can. If I put a million dollars up, you'll loan me a million. Well, yeah. Okay. Well, I don't have a million dollars, so let's negotiate somewhere in between that. But that's when the games begin is the balancing between the developer and the lender and trying to manage.

Right.

JAMES ROLAND (25:14.348)
all the relationship there and the deal. And if the deal doesn't work for both people, it's a bad deal. You've got a bruise there that you have to fix.

It's the perfect question. So what makes a good lender and what makes a good borrower? And then the last question to that is how do you navigate the middle of that?

JAMES ROLAND (25:47.316)
lenders who know in a hurry. Hey, this is a deal we can do.

You happen to be in one. In one above the headquarters, the world headquarters.

I know

JAMES ROLAND (25:59.886)
I love the finality of talking to Dean going, I'm excited about this. And I think that's kind of the verbiage you use. I'm excited. We're all in. I think you've used that word before. And then once that happens, sure, there's something that can tear the deal up, but if the deal sticks to its original profile, it's going to make. And there are very few of those lenders out there. There are very few of those lenders that are out there.

On the borrower side,

That's hard because they come from all different aspects.

Some of them are not experienced enough to do the deal, but they think they are. It's like banking and I've banked people that are bankrupt and have no idea that they're bankrupt.

Do you feel appreciated by one side or the other more? Because the reason I left the middle is I didn't feel like the borrowers, and that was on me, were like, we charged a fee, you know.

JAMES ROLAND (27:15.628)
Yeah.

DEAN CASTELHANO (27:21.09)
The value proposition and what we were doing in the middle always felt discounted. Not always, but there were guys that absolutely appreciated it.

There are a lot of them that don't appreciate what you do or the relationships that you've, a lot of developers, borrowers that don't appreciate it. And as soon as you give them the $10 million that they're looking for, they're gone. And they don't appreciate what you can bring to the table as a quasi.

chief financial officer basically that's kind of because in my way of doing things

as you did, I don't stop at the fee collection. In other words, if there's a problem between the borrower and the lender, I've got a problem. And that can be two or three years down the road.

I'm a witness to that. For you. I know we've We've there's a deal down there Austin. It'll be just fine. It was well under it.

JAMES ROLAND (28:27.746)
Hello.

It was well underwritten and there was an experience issue there that they didn't quite have the class. But yeah, it's a

from a lender perspective, what I can say to the world out there and the hopefully millions that might listen someday. If it's all your family, got a, we got a lot of, is that nothing's more appreciated by a lender than a good middleman advocate of both the deal, the deal itself, but good information.

a huge audience.

DEAN CASTELHANO (29:13.55)
good diplomacy, if that's the right word, cause stuff happens. And the information that comes, and what I can say to borrowers is whatever the cost of that is, your resources are better spent on other things, allowing a middle guy, a capital markets, mortgage banker, mortgage broker, whatever we call ourselves at that point.

to shepherd your deal and that the incremental cost of that, because in a lot of ways you're getting a broader scope of lenders, you're getting 50 years of wisdom, you're getting, if James calls me,

and I got six calls to return, I'm pretty sure is his first, okay? Cause there's a deal there, there's a relationship there, there's trust beyond trust. And I know that he's looking out for me, but he's also looking out for the borrower. I mean, he's trying to thread that needle of win-win, which I might've heard, I might have heard for the first time.

in the New York Life shop because coming from New York, it was never win. It didn't feel win-win to me. And I've said that here before. felt, I gotta kill you to win or you're gonna kill me. So like, we're gonna just square up.

Yeah. Well, it was a powerful sword that we had at New York life. We were one of the big boys and yeah, some, sometimes that didn't feel good. when it did feel good and we did it and it was a win-win boy, it was a great day. Yeah. And that flight home in first class from LaGuardia.

JAMES ROLAND (31:14.144)
at the FW on Friday afternoon with your commitment in your hand was a great flight. People don't get to say that about leaving LaGuardia. No, guess you get to say that actually leaving LaGuardia feels great if you get the chance to. Good point.

Yeah, you know, it's funny.

DEAN CASTELHANO (31:28.75)
I do have a story about the New York Life Days that I observed I didn't really participate in is that Trimal Crow came and was it a hundred million they needed for the market center? And somehow you engineered, well came through LOMAS and that'll take and we teamed up with Equitable. that true? Did we do 50-50?

Market Center.

JAMES ROLAND (31:58.062)
I think it was 40, 50, 50 of the loan amount. I want to say our loan, it was one of the biggest ones we'd ever done. 40 to maybe 50 million.

Something like that.

DEAN CASTELHANO (32:07.444)
Yeah

And it was 1981 or two or three or whatever that was. And by the way, does anybody know the market centers are ground leases? Like a lot of ground leases is very complicated.

Yeah, that's...

JAMES ROLAND (32:26.99)
Our old buddy Ken Huddleston did the underwriting on it and did a masterful job on it. And actually, if you'll recall, what they did is refinance the market center and took some cash out and used that cash to build the Anatole.

There it is. See, didn't know. didn't. I watched kind of from the cheap seats.

Now watch, I'll get a call from the Crow family going, no we didn't!

And that relationship by the way, the relationship at New York Life is I did meet, we did meet Trammell Crowe at the Wyndham Hotel in Austin. I think we lost our sound wife.

Yeah, that's what said.

DEAN CASTELHANO (33:15.34)
I'm trying to get a test test. No, no. You got me. The Crow family.

Yes.

WES CASTELHANO (33:21.286)
you

Okay, I'm back on

So yeah, so the fun thing is, you know, in those days it was Crowe, Lincoln, Vance. Yeah, wow, the first, that's the first, I read every lease in Transco Tower at the home office and I didn't know what the hell I was reading.

yeah.

JAMES ROLAND (33:45.388)
That's the one down in Houston? Texas commerce tower. I got a funny story. Okay. We're going for the final inspection with Ron Fuchs and everybody. We do the final inspection and then a closing dinner with the Heinz people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the- the needle

Yeah. Good tell me.

JAMES ROLAND (34:05.166)
And the inspection goes great. go to the top and we see all the board of directors stuff and it's gorgeous. It's absolutely stunning in this 60 story tower right in the middle of Houston and

The head of the deal was a guy, well, I say his name, but anyway, we go, well, I have to because it's part of the story. Michael Topham worked with Heinz and he was great. And we had dinner and we were sitting at dinner and I go, boy, this is just great. And Michael, what, you you married and yeah, my wife's name is Jan. And I said, where'd you meet her? He said, I met her, you know, in...

Great guy.

JAMES ROLAND (34:52.161)
Dallas said, but she went to high school in Beirut and I went, Hold on. on. What high school did she go? He said, ACS American community school. said, well, hold it. So did, so did my wife. said, I said, what was your, what year did you graduate? Same year.

Your wife was a cheerleader? hold it, mine was too. jeez. Hold it. Is my wife, does he have a separate life here?

and sister. Same name.

Michael Topham married Jan Goddard from ACS who was roommates with my wife, Jan Sibley at that point. we got them on the phone right then and they talked. And we've seen them at some reunions now of the American Community School. anyway, it's crazy.

It is a, I'll say that the big, the big business side of that being in connection with New York, New York life was fascinating. And so educational in a lot of ways and learning to navigate. I worked in the home office. That was an incredible lesson about what I would call office politics for lack of a better word, who were the teachers who were, you know, who were threats who were

DEAN CASTELHANO (36:26.37)
Yeah, it was really interesting to me. I loved working. I landed in the best spot I could land in, which was the Western Division, Pat Hudson, Chester Brower, Tom O'Connor and Abby Sanger. And I'll never forget their names because they were like mentor teachers to me. Because I can remember going back to the grabbing a file.

in the home office, you had these open concepts and the file cabinets were the lateral cabinets behind you. And you had this piece of cardboard and stick it, you pull the file out and sign it out. That's right. Go to your desk reading these words. I'm like, I don't know what any of this may be. Maybe one day I will. then Chester Brower, who was so formal and so smart, would speak in this like almost lawyerly.

formal language and he was like big tall handsome guy and I'm like, I kind of don't know what he's saying, you know? But they all were so kind and everybody was so generous and then I came to Dallas and you know, everybody there, what a great team. I'm just gonna say that was very cohesive. You guys were all great. Of course anchored always by someone like Elizabeth Cook. We'll say her name.

Bye.

JAMES ROLAND (37:50.922)
Saint it, Elizabeth Cooke.

And then we, then I think, I don't know, did you and I just get the itch to go smaller?

Yeah.

Well, it was

Was, were you frustrated at New York life or? Cause I was.

JAMES ROLAND (38:06.158)
think at that point, there was so much activity around us. The opportunities were flying around us. And what were we making? We were making nothing. And any offer was like sensational. And when you went with Philip, I mean, we weren't great because we lost such a key guy, but the activity, were so many good deals with Crow and

Hines and Lincoln and there are so many good deals and the Jim Brown Lowe's and the and and the Lomas Nettleton's of the world guiding us through the maze and finding the right deals so as you know the the craziness is that we would negotiate our own deals and underwrite them and and then go appraise them ourselves so

That's one of the Joe says, you have to turn down your own deal when you're a lender.

That's right. But Ben McCune was always there looking over our shoulder. would always, he would always be the checker, quality control.

God.

DEAN CASTELHANO (39:14.328)
So let's just have a minute of fun because we were, know, I forget where the Southern region or the Central region or whatever our territory was, but let's talk about some of those middle guys that were kind of formative and fun. let's like the Kerry French's and the, we talked about Mac Rogers and of course Rob.

carry fran-

JAMES ROLAND (39:38.787)
Rob Butis, Mac Rogers, Rob Butis. Yeah.

favorite. By the way, Jason Rice, whose dad is, I forget, I really am bummed that I can't remember his dad's name that was, I'll remember it, in Houston mortgage banker, Jason came to work for us at Northmark and now he's at, I think he's at Berkshire Hathaway. Is that right? One of the, he's a rock star.

yes.

DEAN CASTELHANO (40:10.862)
a mortgage guy. There were so many guys. So do you remember Ron Sapio? His name? Ron Sapio. So I'm going to give you a culture different story. I moved from New York and I probably still talk fast. I'm not sure. So when you get on the phone in New York and Phillip Asker and I do this too, it's like, it's never high how you're doing. You always know the voice. Now you know the number.

so. Not too bad.

DEAN CASTELHANO (40:41.39)
Right? And you know, typically it'd be like, did you get that lease reviewed? It wasn't like, hey, Dean, this is, you're like, did you get that lease reviewed in an hour? Click, right? So that's 10 seconds. Boom. So I come down to Texas. A lot of the day is receiving calls from middle guys about doing deals. So it'd be like, hey, Dean, this is Ron Zapio.

And Ron, if you're out there, love you, man, because I tell this story a lot. How was your weekend? You know that I don't know if we talked about the Oilers or the Cowboys or the Astros, but you had to go to sports and went to family. And I'm like, the first couple of times this happens, like, what the hell do you want? I have all day to talk. I actually did have all day.

at the end of the business.

JAMES ROLAND (41:34.316)
Talk to me.

Yes

It was kind of slow. weren't doing a lot of new deals, but it became, I learned that that establishing rapport, get somebody. Yeah, that's a good way to say it.

It's a different pace down here.

Does that change?

JAMES ROLAND (42:03.554)
not so much, not that I can tell. Now I've known these people for 40 years, so maybe that's a part of it. We were already by the how you doing stuff. But it, you know, it comes down to you gotta be good at what you're doing or those relationships just become superficial. If you're not good, they're gonna find somebody who's good. It's like anything you do, boy, when you get

picked off and it's your turn to pinch hit, you better be ready. Because you may not get another opportunity. so, I'm on the road at Scotland answering my phone and the guys with me are going like, quit answering the phone. The guys, I gotta answer the phone. One of these people may be buying a house and they're like, okay, we get it.

You know what?

JAMES ROLAND (43:02.665)
we get it. Let's get it.

How did this trip get paid for? Or how is it gonna get paid for?

Hello, hello, hello, hey, I'm

He's a, uh, I always knew you were a little tight there. can edit all that.

What? You got no way.

JAMES ROLAND (43:30.35)
you

to come back.

across the wires, literally got our wires.

Do not do that. It's a 25 foot cable. Yeah. I, I try to make it tidy and that's what made it all screwed up.

All right, where are we time wise, Wes? Two. All right, so we got about five more minutes to talk. What is it? Is there anything about business that you'd like? Would you like to impart some wisdom on some young guys that are at TCU right now? We had an intern this summer. It's TCU kid, great kid, Matic Strets, shout out.

JAMES ROLAND (43:49.692)
50.

JAMES ROLAND (44:11.832)
would say.

JAMES ROLAND (44:16.334)
My advice is follow your passion. Are you getting this?

get in the audio? Okay.

Are you not hearing yourself? It's just a little muted.

JAMES ROLAND (44:30.702)
That's a really good question.

JAMES ROLAND (44:34.83)
Can you try it again? Test, one, two. Can you hear me? Yeah, that's probably all right. It's just, there it goes. Back in. Yeah. I really love what I'm doing. Okay. So I work all weekend and never think that I'm working. mean, I'll, I'll look at pieces of what I'm doing, whether it's building houses or talking to a lender or talking to a borrower or whatever. So

can hear you.

JAMES ROLAND (45:04.396)
My passion overcomes anything that I put in front of it over evenings or weekends. I'm ready to do it. Follow your passion. If you get to Sunday night and you're excited about Monday morning at 8 a.m., you're in the right spot.

So here's a question. Because I just, literally this kind of just occurred to me.

Okay.

DEAN CASTELHANO (45:35.928)
Can you, so I call that, we call this small business, living it. So let's just, the living part, right? So can you live your way into loving it? So it's like, if you put your head down, like you get an opportunity, right? I didn't know commercial real estate finance existed when I graduated from college. I thought, thanks, whatever.

They made loans on buildings or mortgage companies on houses. I did not know about the whole capital markets thing. And over time I learned to love it. so helping, maybe it just matches up because I like to solve problems and help people, but I found a lane to do that in. So I never even knew about it. So I don't know that I had a passion for it, but I had, I think I knew I had a passion to

I wanted to earn money and I wanted to earn a living and I like moving money transaction. So there's some element of where the passion is versus what you're doing. know, to me it's kind of like bringing the passion to the project.

think you can learn your way into the passion. That you become locked in at, wow, this was great, this was fun. The whole thing was fun. Not just, you know. The whole thing.

What I would say to kids coming out of college that are in situations where they're not happy before you change careers, change the culture. Oh, because I believe that if you're in the right culture and you bring your gifts, the company will honor the gifts, support you with resources and you can come. I can go sell cars if it's. There is a culture there, right? They're going to honor you.

JAMES ROLAND (47:34.563)
yeah.

DEAN CASTELHANO (47:39.278)
they're going to provide you with resources. I'd love to go to school and sell. It's a great product and it's a great culture. So part of, I'm sorry that I'm hijacked my own question, but the, the, the concept of passion to me has to do with if you put me in the right soil, I think I'm going to grow and be healthy and then I'm going to love it. And then I can take whatever

skills or confidence or style, wisdom, anywhere.

exact but

gotta get the touchdown. You can't, you have to perform. Everything works, but if you don't score, then it falls in the bad category. And we've all had that, you know, I work on 10, 12 deals to close three or four of them. Or maybe less than that. But the end game, the celebration at the end,

is awesome. And then you get to celebrate the journey because it all ended up in a touchdown. know, it doesn't matter that you fumbled. One of your teammates picked it up and we continue to drive. We still scored. So, you know, there is that and there's nothing like closing day. There's nothing like it. It does drive.

JAMES ROLAND (49:13.434)
the balance and making sure that everybody on the settlement statement, the lender and the borrower and me, that we're all happy together at that date.

Yeah, I know that that's a core principle of yours. Yeah, because it oozes from you and I appreciate that. know, you yeah, young people out there, I would I would say that.

When I say live in it, I mean it. I mean, whatever it is you're doing, all those little things, dress nice, show up early, be attentive, listen well. George Watson said to our intern, pick up the phone, answer it. If somebody calls you and if you can't answer it, call them back quickly because you might miss something. Just like James said, I'm playing St. Andrews.

I got a nine iron after the seventh hole and my phone rings and it's like it could be someone buying my million dollar house in rock wall the nine iron

The non iron can wait it can wait a few minutes. I'll always more golf. There's always more

DEAN CASTELHANO (50:26.358)
It's living it right there. Answering your phone.

answering the phone and doing the simple things. If you're not early, you're late. You know, what is it? It's a trust factor. That's what we have. And that's very rare, but you've got to make people earn that trust factor. And how you do it is being responsible and being there and being reliable. And I just talked to a bank today saying,

D'ah!

JAMES ROLAND (50:56.354)
You know, I know you lost your banker and that's the guy I was talking with, but I'm your guy. I was talking to the president of the bank. I'm your guy. When you have a problem, I got a problem. Yeah. And he appreciated that. So be responsible, be attentive, answer the phone. Even if you're playing golf at the old course in San Andres.

I'd also say maybe start big and work small. know it's alluring to go work for startups and small companies and stuff like that. And I'm sure that there are success stories there, but I think what my experience was, I didn't get a master's degree, but I felt like guys like James, those people who mentored me and taught me in my first three or four years of real job,

that was my masters in commercial real estate. And I think the thing that's most important to learn is what I would call style. I think you're calling it attentiveness. I think you're calling how you build relationships and trust. Philip asked you what I would say style. He would purposely make you feel like how he participated was not a threat to anybody. He was there to help.

everybody. And so people trust him like automatically. So, and I would like to say that of all, you know, I think in the business, you're the one person on the planet that I've known the longest and probably spent the most time with. Well, that's so happy that we're able to continue to transact. You are the 2025 leader.

Let's keep going. Later. At the halfway. Sorry about it.

DEAN CASTELHANO (52:43.062)
business. Terry Dell Capital. Did you hear that?

I know Brian. Love you buddy. Love you buddy.

so what? Let's do more.

Yes, absolutely. This was fun. Thank you for putting it all together. This has been wonderful. Yes. Yeah, fixing stuff on the fly, baby. Fixing it on the fly. That's what I do.

Wes, good job, good.

DEAN CASTELHANO (53:06.274)
Bullshooting.

I did not feel that warm.

No, it's fine. No, I love it like this. It's great. Come to second floor studios. get your son tan and you can feel the heat. Yeah. I'm all about, I'm all about losing weight. So they have lost a pound or two. what the heck? Yes, it's good. All right guys. it a pleasure. Awesome.

Yeah.

DEAN CASTELHANO (53:30.126)
Yeah

awesome

The SBLI Podcast is an independent production published monthly on the first Thursday of the month. are broadcasting from the second floor studios located in the Graham Mortgage Home Office in Dallas, Texas. To learn more about Graham, visit their website, gm-tx.com, or find them on LinkedIn. To hear more episodes, go to anchor.fm slash s-b-l-i to find us on your favorite podcast listening platform.

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